[deep breath]

As I'm still new here, I'm going to try very hard not to sound like a raving lunatic but did this EVER piss me off....

Having a nice day so far, everything was going well. Stopped into Albertsons with the family to pick up a few things. Now, some back ground: My family has been shopping at Albertsons for over 25 years. My mom used to take us there when we were kids and they always had free donut holes - samples, you know? - for the kids. My favorite uncle is actually a manager at an Albertsons in south Florida. So I figure I'm keeping him in a job by shopping there, right? I was so happy when I moved from Florida to Washington and saw that they had an Albertsons in my new neck of the woods since I wasn't familiar with any of the other grocery stores. I'm not particular about where I shop now and will go wherever I feel like going on any particular day. But today it happened to be Albertsons because we had some plastic bags I wanted to drop off at their recycling bin.

I'm shopping... shopping. The TV thing in stores has really annoyed me and Albertsons aggravates me a lot because they have one of these in the produce section that yells at you about how to pick produce and how good it all is for you and whatnot and plays commercials and tips from the hosts of CBS whatever show... ok... that I could live with. Fine. But today....

Today... I'm picking out fruit and milk and a couple other things and what do I hear over the loudspeaker???

"Glory, glory, hallelujah, OUR GOD IS MARCHING ON."

I thought I was going to DIE. I mean, really? In a grocery store??????????? I just want to buy food and go home. That's all. Can I not do that without being preached to? "Our god is marching on..." Yes... yes, and destroying every civilized, "heathen" society in his path. DAMN IT!!!!!

I tried to contain myself. I truly did. Breathe. Ok. It's just a stupid f'ing song in a stupid f'ing store. But you know... NO. I'm not going to shut up. So, I take my groceries, my son, and my darling beloved right up to the front of the store. I wait... finally a lady shows up. I calmly ask for a manager. Manager's busy, ok. She's busy at a check stand helping folks... ok. So I ask this lady to give her a message for me. So she gets out a notebook and a pen to take down a message. And I make it brief. I tell her, "Please tell the manager that I'm leaving because of the song that was just playing in this store - "glory, glory... our god is marching on"? that? Yeah. My family has been shopping at Albertsons for 25 years. My uncle MANAGES an Albertsons down in Florida and I will NEVER step FOOT in an Albertsons ever again. I just want to buy groceries not have religion SHOVED down my throat. Please tell your manager that she should rethink the music that's being played in her store." And I left the cart right there and walked off while I still had some cool about me. My boyfriend and my son stayed behind for just a bit, long enough for this b**** behind the counter to say, "I don't know why she's so upset, it's called freedom of speech," to which my beloved sweetly replied, "Yes, and there's also freedom to shop somewhere else."

I left. Went to another grocery store and gave them my money. I just got home about 30 minutes ago. I called Albertsons to try to talk to the manager? She's still busy. That's fine.

You know, the thing is that yesterday, I was reading that the estimate is that the number of Wiccans/neo-pagans doubles every 2 years and that at that rate, it will be the third largest religion in America by 2012 - that's just five years from now, folks. And I found this last tidbit - the whole THIRD LARGEST RELIGION IN AMERICA - on a site for some book that some guy wrote. Apparently, the book tried to give a fair look at Witches but then went on to bible thumping. I don't know. I haven't read it. And I'll see if I can find the site again a little later to be fair.

I'm not some fringe lunatic. I'm just one small part of a very legitimate spiritual belief system in this country that is going to get bigger not smaller, not disappear, and damn it people are going to have to deal with that. I don't want to hear about ANYONE'S god marching on while I'm trying to buy apples.


-Izrail

Izrail,

What you were listening to was merely the variety of Muzac that someone higher up in the company selected. Lowly store managers seldom have a say in such lofty decisions. There's surely a nationwide toll-free customer-service number you can call; you're more likely to get a response that way anyway than you are by talking to store-level drones.

I do feel your pain. I personally avoid Wal-Mart for a similar reason. The one closest to me once had a small, very mediocre hilbilly-type gospel group performing in the store promoting a CD The Blue Empire was trying to foist. I asked the manager how he could subject customers and his employees to something like that. He just looked at the floor and mumbled that it wasn't his idea. I now shoop at a regional chain called Kroger. I pay a little more, but I'm a person of principles. At least Kroger sponsors a really good jazz festival in Indianapolis every year.

Blessings.
Monk

GreenMonk, thanks for the response. I have considered that the manager has no control over the music in the store... yes. But, if I were a manager of a store, I'd still want to know why I was losing business so I could pass that info up the chain. We're working on letters to the corporate office to express our extreme displeasure with the whole mess. But it seems that a manager saying to a district manager, regional manager and so on up, "Hey, seriously, no I lost $800 a month in business - just that I KNOW of - because of this one song that was played in my store," would widen some eyes. There was at least one other couple that I saw there that was not happy about the song either.


Here are the sites that I mentioned that I looked at the other day. Obviously, whether they view us negatively or not, there are some within the conservative Christian camp that know we exist (I say conservative Christian because my Grammy was a Christian but an open-minded, new age, hippy-type who practiced more than preached. Folks like that are totally ok in my book. They don't seek to demonize other religious beliefs.) and that we're not going away anytime soon. The first link I read through and the other bits I haven't completely gone through just yet.

http://hourofthewitch.com/swf/wm_ch1.swf
http://hourofthewitch.com
http://www.wiccawitchcraft.net/


And for the curious, here are the lyrics to the song:

"The Battle Hymn of the Republic," lyrics by Julia Ward Howe

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:
His truth is marching on.

(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
His day is marching on.

Chorus

I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my condemners, so with you my grace shall deal;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on."

Chorus

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat:
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.

Chorus

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

Chorus




I don't know whose republic this is the battle hymn for but it sure isn't mine.

Izrail, I believe this song was connected to the Northern Army during the Civil War, and they were probably playing it in honor of Independence Day. I think it is considered more an American song than a religious one, back in the old days church and state weren't so separate. I don't think it was the intention of the store to force Christianity down your throat, patriotism maybe, but not religion. I am not trying to tell you how to live, but I think you are allowing yourself to get really upset over a small thing. It's not worth wasting your precious life letting something like this make you so angry.

Izrail how well I know living here in the bible belt. That song originated in the Civil War. Union song. I live daily with many songs and other things here in the bible belt. Let them slide off and go away. I have a really cool rebel song to answer that one, LOL.
Live and let live. Many times I smile and go on, even bow my head with them and listen to the loud Amens.
Such is life

Sundown

Thank you all very much. I appreciate your kind responses. Yes, I know where the song came from. I'm just surprised that it's being played in a grocery store. I mean, this song can so easily be interpreted as being about going on a kill spree in the name of god. I just think it was very careless of them to play. There are so, so many patriotic songs that aren't religious and could hardly offend any American. And what's wrong with just playing instrumentals? or classical music? It just seems smart and considerate. I mean, how many people are offended by Chopin? I try not to be bothered by these things but I just can't swallow the lack of common sense that is running amuck. People like to live under this delusion that the founding fathers were these pious, Christian men and that the American flag is a uniting banner of a self-righteous Christian nation and it's just not true. That's not the way it was supposed to be. I don't think Thomas Jefferson, the man who wrote the Declaration of Independence, would consider The Battle Hymn of the Republic patriotic. I think he would think it was psychotic. [sigh] I can accept being a minority. I can deal with individuals. I don't understand acts of rudeness or thoughtlessness or even aggression on the part of governments and large companies. [shrug] I just feel that someone has to say these things.

I don't agree with just taking it. I think that it is about time those of us in the "minority" stood up and spoke our minds. We won't get far if we all continue to just sit down, shut up and take what is handed to us. And I think a lot more people are coming to that realization.
Do I think we should sue or get in fights about every little thing? No. But, something that clearly comes across as religious (as this song does, despite what the intention of the song is) in a place that your not expecting it to be (ie, grocery store) then everyone has the right to say something. Even if it comes across as angry or upsets others that are cool with it.

Personally I would be happy if they stopped playing music of any kind at stores. It is annoying and distracting. In my opinion. Especially when they seem to want to crank it up so loud you can't hear yourself think, let alone have a conversation with someone with you without the entire store hearing you. I'm sure it is some kind of conspiracy to make you spend more. lol

I can understand your point of view in this situation Izrail. And I agree with letting the manager know as well the higher ups. It may not change much, and that is something that you will have to come to terms with, but if enough people complain it may change everything.
As for the "freedom of speech" comment. That to me is just a cop out answer that is used for everything when someone doesn't agree with what they are hearing. Yes we have freedom of speech. However, we also have the ability to monitor ourselves. And how exactly is playing music in a public business, that apparently those playing it may not actually have any control over what is played, freedom of speech? I could see if perhaps they chose that type of music specifically to make a point..freedom of speech. But, "well we came in today and turned on the music like usual, so we are covered under freedom of speech if people don't like it"..doesn't cut it as freedom of speech to me.
I say go in there with a radio blasting whatever it is that you like to hear and when they complain tell them to bow their heads and take it..your just excersing your freedom of speech.

Ok...yeah, I'm vindictive and people piss me off. So you might not actually want to go to that extreme. lol But, if that is the argument that is going to be used to keep those that disagree in line, then turn about is fair play.

Ladyalpha,

Thank you for your reply. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks this was a BS situation. And I'm also very glad to hear that there are those who would voice their discontent at such a situation.

I have difficulties with taking "live and let live" to the extreme of "live and keep your mouth shut." If we don't speak out against things that seem little now, the big problems will come right behind them. Rights don't disappear over night. Persecution doesn't come in the form of a sudden flood. It starts slowly, as a trickle through a crack in the dam. I'm not saying that Alberstons is persecuting Pagans and I'm not saying that every Pagan should be an up in arms activist, but when you witness something... you kind of have an obligation to say something. Otherwise, you can't complain when you wake up 10 years later and find the world has gone mad.

-Izrail

Here's the problem with your argument: That is a privately owned store that happens to be open to the public. If it was a government funded school, or a post office, you would have a point, but you can't tell people how to use their own property. Look at it this way. If you owned a metaphysical store in an enclosed mall so that the people passing by could hear the music you were playing, what would you say to the Christian who objected to the Loreena McKennit CD that you were playing for your customers? You'd tell him/her to leave your store if it was so offensive, and that would be the end of it. The store owner has the right to play any music he likes, and you have the right to not shop there anymore, and that's it. And your point isn't any more valid than anyone elses point, after all, we are all connected, so what if the Jews came into the grocery store and objected to the shell fish and non Kosher meat? And then the vegans would object to all the meat, eggs, and dairy. The Christian Scientists would want all the medicines removed, and the Jehovah Witnesses would certainly be offended if any American themed music was played, because they are non-patriotic. The blind people would want all the food labeled in Braille, and the deaf would want all the store employees to sign. Where does it end? It never would, and that's why sometimes live and let live is the wisest choice.

Rainbells, I am a big fan of Loreena McKennitt as is my very bizarre Christian mother. Please tell me what song on any Loreena McKennitt CD ADVOCATES killing people in the name of god??? This was not "Amazing Grace," not a peaceful, joyous praise unto god. It was a song that justifies murder in the name of religion. Not only that, your comparison has no value. Your talking about the playing of a type of music in a type of store where one would expect to hear it - NewAge/Celtic music in a New Age metaphysical store - versus the playing of a militant Christian anthem in a grocery store that for the record is a subsidiary of Supervalu - a public company, publicly traded. It's like comparing Charlie Chaplin to Hitler because they both have mustaches.

And I've never said that they don't have a right to play whatever they want. But they should damn well expect to lose customers over that sort of crap. And I don't think that any self-respecting Pagan can, with good conscience, keep their mouth shut about such things. If folks here disagree with me, that is their right. And I respect that. But your argument was poorly founded at best and I have a right to defend my position and I have done so.

I do not apologize for my beliefs and I do not think that it is unreasonable to have been offended by this situation.

Izrail, I wasn't expecting you to apologize for your beliefs, I just wanted you to look at it from another point of view. You obviously are an intelligent person with the courage of your convictions. Even if you get the store to stop playing that song, what good have you really done in the grand scheme of things? There is so much real injustice in our country, and so many people in need of strong voices to speak out for them because they can't do it for themselves. I just thought your talents would be better used doing something other than complaining about an old song that was meaningful in its time.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Sadly Rainbells, your scenario, while not completely the same, has happened before. Christians have seen the stores and have staged protests and have ran stores out of business. All without stepping foot inside or even walking past and hearing music. I know of one store in Arkansas who had their business closed down and then later had their church burned..all because they were Wiccan. Thankfully they have rebuilt over the years and seem to be doing well from the look of their website which is now where they sell their products they offer.
But, my point is, we all sit back and shake our heads when we see or hear of these things. But how many of us really do anything else? Those in the "majority" continue to voice their opinions..right, wrong or indifferent, and the "majority" of us "minorities" just sit back and let them go. We don't stand up and say anything to try to correct them or to say that we don't appreciate certain things.
Some of us do that because we feel as you do..it is their store and we were blessed to just get to step foot in it. Or that if we complain then everyone will complain and there will be complete chaos. Or that our voice is not that important and if it was then we would be using our voice for others, not ourselves.

I personally was raised to stand up for all things I found wrong. Whether that affected me personally or someone else. Now perhaps in the situation that Izrail found herself in I would have grumbled and not have gone to someone in person. However, by seeing that someone else was offended or upset over it, I would be more likely to stand up.
Now, as others here know, I did sue a public school recently over Christian prayers. It was the most unpopular thing to do..especially in a town that still refuses to believe that we are in the 21st century. But, it was an injustice to many people and it was breaking the law as well as the school's policies. I did not receive money (regardless of what some in this town and surrounding areas thought I was getting) but now the school officials do not lead the students in prayer during mandatory functions. And it has made people think before they do things. Just yesterday while I was at the library, the librarian was asking a parent if she knew any children rhymes or songs and what she sang to her kids. The woman said she sang gosple songs, the librarian went on to tell her well I can't really sing those here so never mind. Now I don't know if it was because of the lawsuit or if it was because the librarian is from California that stopped her..but I was so grateful that something did. Because by your arguement, the public library is really a private business that is letting the public come in and they can go on and do whatever they want. Those that are offended need to just leave and not come back quietly.
I mention this also because one woman told me she sat quietly for 4 years! Just putting up with the whole bow your head now and listen to us pray to you and for you..whether you pray this way or not. She said she didn't know that it upset others so she just dealt with it!

I say if your going to leave a place fine. Your correct, it is a choice to shop or step into a place. However, as someone that has ran a business before, I would want to know why my customers are not happy. Why are they leaving. Because while one family not coming any more may not seem like that big of a deal, when they do their books it will be noticable. Can you imagine running a business and seeing a drop of even 400 dollars? Then perhaps the next month when someone else decides, for whatever reason, that they don't want to shop there either and they show now an 800 dollar loss..The people doing the books are going to go to the manager and ask, what the hell is going on here? And the manager is going to be standing there with a "duh..I don know..." look on their face because noone told him/her why they stopped shopping there. Then they get reamed, or fired, because they didn't do their job and can't defend their position. (How does that help people in the end? You got people offended and people possibly losing their jobs because the main company is losing money).

Word of mouth is a powerful thing too. When anyone gets upset about a product or store they talk. Then someone else says, hey that was wrong (see Wal-Mart as an example) and they stop going or even stage protests. Things do change. Maybe not to the liking of everyone but the majority that took the time to complain got what they wanted.
And I don't think that what she is asking for is that bad. She didn't say I want you to stop all music of any kind. And I know for a fact that stores have other music they can choose. It all may still be crappy music that you don't want to listen to, but it isn't religious
based.
I don't see why they don't pick a neutral station and perhaps they have but by not talking and bringing things up, how is someone supposed to know? Perhaps they had it on what they felt was a neutral station that noone was going to be offended by and this one song slipped in due to the holiday? Or perhaps they are doing a study to see what exactly they can slip in without someone complaining? And perhaps it was just the beginning to sliding in more Christian God based music.
When I go to the grocery store I do not expect to listen to hymns or other songs that tell me how God is coming or marching on, etc. If I want that I will go to church or a church function. Regardless if it is a private business or not..if you open it to the public you now have to start catering to your public cliential. Hmm..perhaps that is why we now have organic foods, kosher foods, vegetarian foods...because the public that weren't afraid to use the voice they were given stood up. And the companies saw that they were going to lose all that money and stepped up and gave their public customers what they asked for to keep their business.

I'm sorry but if people don't start standing up and speaking for things then we will all just have to deal with how things fall. If you disgree with something, you are supposed to complain. That is what started America in the first place. It may not change things right away or ever..but at least you used the voice that you were given and tried.
As for using our voices for others..even in these small ways we are speaking for others that can't/won't speak for themselves. As I mentioned above in my example of the lawsuit. People were dealing quietly with things they did not believe in because they wouldn't speak for themselves. Perhaps Izrail is doing the same for someone else with this seemingly minor issue.
We have to take care of our own backyards before we start moving into someone elses.

Ladyalpha,

Thank you for that post. It is very refreshing to see that someone understands these things in a way similar to the way I see them. It's good to know one is not crazy.

Rainbells, thank you for the compliments. I do try to stay on top of issues on a broader level and often annoy/write to senators and representatives and have on occasion even bothered presidents. Often, however, it's the smaller, local issues that have a more immediate impact on people's lives. And little things add up. In life, a lot of people are very unhappy because of a lot of little things.

Bright Blessings to all,
Izrail

Just joined up here so I apologize if my reply is a bit late and the conversation is basicly already over...but what bothered me more than hearing about the Battle Hymn of the Republic in a grocery store is when I was shopping the other day and I hear a muzak version of Aqualung by Jethro Tull! Talk about mind blowing.....