Good morning Cromots,

I do not think you are wrong in your feelings about the ceremony.  As magic essentially is the act of manifesting one's will into the material realm. If there is a person participating in a ceremony that is not focusing on the intended outcome of a joint ritual, there is no reason the ritual should work as intended.  It sounds like your HP was focusing on the ritual as a social event as opposed to a ritual of magic.  Given, the two are not mutually exclusive.  I do not agree with your priestess' choice, but I have never been part of a coven nor participated in a ritual or any act of magic with anyone else, so I hardly an authority on coven diplomacy and interaction.  That is among the strongest reasons I am a solitairy practitioner -- I have a tendency to question acts and choices that strike me as illogical and insipid.

IN a smple, but efeective, IMHO opinion,lol, nothing you feel is wrong.

You feel it because that is how the ritual made you feel.

Circle should indeed be a sacred space, sacred to allwho dwell within it. You will know if there is someone there who does not complete the circle. It's kinda like an electrical circuit. If there is a break in the flow, the elctricity will not flow, it will stop at the broken point. Sure you will have a field of energy, but not the complete flow.

I do not participate in rituals, or covens, but feel it is safe to say she should not have put that person into the ritual at all. If your ritual writer would have wanted that person to hold that spot, they would have gotten theri permission, and put them there.

Sounds like your HPS has power issues, and not of the magickal sort either.

Cotomos i would have to say hel no you weren't in the wronge with your feelings especialy since this person is untrained with that alone i would have refused to participate. from the other posts i have read and comented on it seems like your HPS don't truely know what the H E double hockey sticks there doing!!!    
I am solitary but have worked with and helped establish covens and some of the covens i have helped still ask for giddence from time to time but your coven seems to be falling apart because eather the leaders don't truely care about what they are doing or aren't fully trained to be the heads of the coven. i know my words may seem harsh but they are true i would look into a differnt group.
there reckless abandonment of rituals and not giving the divines there do is becoming a hinderance and it will tear the group further and the backlash will be great so be careful.

Hi Cromotos,

Perhaps you should re-evaluate why you desire to be in this group of individuals. You were upset earlier with the treatment of an Athame that someone left, and you do not approve of the HP. In my opinion, you should not be a practicing with these individuals. Your energy is just as negative in circle as those who you accuse. Remember that energy affects ALL involved. And while you wish the best, when you harbor bad feelings, it feeds intot he existing structure of the mem,bers there, and fortifies the things you wish not to see. The Law of Attraction...you know what I mean?

Step away from the Coven for awhile, re-establish your own connections to the Divine and find out what it is that you desire fromt his Coven. Then if you discover that they are not what is needed in your life...simply move on. There is nothing wrong with practicing Solitary, and having been in numerous groups and Covens, all I can say is, I prefer it. Being one with the Divine does not require tools, rituals, or Covens..it requires a willingness to life a life of balance....one in which you walk the Earth knowing what and who you are...

Be well....

"Remember that energy affects ALL involved. And while you wish the best, when you harbor bad feelings, it feeds intot he existing structure of the mem,bers there, and fortifies the things you wish not to see. The Law of Attraction...you know what I mean? "

I agree with this completely. You feel what you feel. Your feelings are not wrong, they are yours to feel. Having said that, your past posts indicate you are already having personal issues with the coven and some of its members. In my opinion, I don't feel it was right for the HPS to invite a non-member into such a scared ritual; however, it's not necessarily the non-member who effected the energy of the circle, but your own reaction to him being in the circle. Your own negative energy impacted the ritual. The non-member may have been open-minded enough to be able to participate, but you weren't open to him being there in the circle.

I am not being mean. I am just stating how important it is for every person to have positive energy in the working of magic.

I agree with everyone who has suggested you step away from this coven, reconnect to your divine, and then make a decision as to whether this coven is meeting your needs and standards.

May you be filled with the light of clarity and love. Brightest blessings in your journey.

Cromotos,

Please think on the words below.....

The High Priestess is the final word on the quality of Worship as the High Priest is the final word on the quality of Magick within the Coven or Grove Circles. The High Priest's relationship is: Father, Brother, and Lover. The Priestess's relationship is: Mother, Sister, and Lover.

Although members are given a voice in the coven. The Coven is not a democracy. Meetings are opened to all who are initiated. Guests are allowed at the will of the HP and HPS. Whatever the business, it is open to discussion by all. But, there are no votes taken because there are only two people in the coven that bear the responsibility for the actions of the coven, the High Priestess and the High Priest.

No witch shall enter the Circle without PERFECT LOVE AND PERFECT TRUST in all members of the Circle. If one disagrees with the decision of the leaders of any coven or circle. It is their right and duty to leave the coven. There is no other lawful recourse.

All ways of loving the Goddess are correct. None are Wrong as long as they are based in love. Say not "they are wrong" say "they are a different path from mine". Until you know in your heart that you have found your path, do not deny any path that you have not walked. When you find your path, still walk other paths with your brothers and sisters in joy and love.

This is a quote found in the book "Drawing down the Moon" by Margot Adler. It's one of my favourite books and I love the quote.

"We gaze up at the same stars,
the sky covers us all,
the same universe encompasses us.
What does it matter what practical system
we adopt in our search for the truth?
Not by one avenue alone
can we arrive at
so tremendous a secret".

Text by Symmachus, a Greek writer from384 C.E.

Cromotos,

I can understand your quandry and I understand your need to complete your degree work. I also want to offer a word of advice, given with love and compassion. It's important to accept people as they are. Talking negatively with other members of your coven will only continue to breed negativity toward the HPS. That in itself will not be conducive to the work you are trying to accomplish. Assume that your HPS is coming into the circle with love and good intentions. Maybe she isn't doing things the way you would do them, but she is doing them the way she feels she should be doing them or feels she is guided to be doing them. If you choose to stay within the coven to get to the degree level you want, knowing that at that point you will branch off onto your own journey in another place, then try to find a way to love and accept the HPS as she is. Bring the energy of love, acceptance and compassion into the circle and into the coven. By doing that, you will have gained strength of character as a person. Encourage others in the coven to do the same. See if that changes the energy or dynamics of the coven.

Brightest blessings of love and light.

yes true guinavere but these HPS has already done many things to P O the ancient powers. the fall out has already started and is going to get much worse. they have a blaiten disregard for the concerns of the other members of the coven and of the divines. I beleave the reason why there isn't many people left in the coven is they are being lead away as i think that is what is happening to you cromotos you haven't earned the ire of the divinies and this is were you are at a crossroads in your life you can eather stay the storm or move on. in the end it is your chose. i beleave your path lies else were and not with this coven.

cromotos you are gardenarian i take it. that one was a path i didn't like too much. i have met many of the same learning as you are and pissed off many more. to me there ranking system is horse puckey. like they think that me as a Norseman should be impressed and in awe that they are first or second degree . what ever . it doesn't matter outside of there circles atleast to me and quite a few i have met.

Torrvald...I definitely see your point and agree with you in the way the HPS has certainly played a role in having the coven having a breakdown, so to speak. However, it is not my place to judge her on her actions. The divine is taking care of that as evidenced in the members leaving the coven.

There is definitely a lesson somewhere for Cromotos to learn. And personally if I were at the crossroads, I would be leaving. I also do not feel a need of degrees. That is one reason I am a solitary. Always will be. The gifts I have been given are personal. The relationship I have with the universe are sacred to me.  I certainly don't need the politics of a coven to interfere with that. And it's one of the reasons I wouldn't belong to any organised religion. I have found that in my personal life, and through my relationship with the divine, that I have grown, had gifts given to me when I needed them to be, and will continue to grow. No need for degree levels.

Cromotos, this all hangs on the importance of how important reaching the degree levels are to you and how much you are willing to sacrifice to reach them.

Cromotos,

Please the read this article

http://www.pangaia.com/pdfs/39toetotoe.pdf

May your journey lead you to a place of peace within yourself.....

Cromotos,
        it sounds like you have just been around the wronge type of pagans i know a a celtic high preist who is a gay man and when he channels the lord of the hunt you wouldn't even know he is gay. sexual orientation means nothing you can be gay and still have musculine energies. With me i am strait and i don't care if you perfer men or weman as long as they accept that i am strait and let that part be.
it sounds like these groups you have met are still trapped in the cristain dogmatic paradimes.
it is unfortunate but you get that once in awile.

Cromotos, I just got onto this thread of forum.  I find my "feathers" ruffled by the actions your HPS has taken.  First I find out that the athame you once had issues with was thrown in the trash.  I do not believe that was an appropriate action for your "WITCH QUEEN" HPS to take.  I also find my feathers ruffled at that statement.  It sounds like Hecate is about to give her a good old fashioned b*tch smack.  As far as the acceptance you have not received due to your sexual orientation I think that SUCKS!!!  I have also been on the recieving end of being judged and it did not feel good. (I'm supposed to be a certain because of my Mommy)  I think that is bull crap and if you were in my area of the country and trying to get into a coven I was involved with and you were told that I would leave the coven without even an explanation as to why.  If everyone can not  be accepted because of who they are and what they do I will not be either.  You have a good plan, learn what you can but step away.  Hecate teaches her lessons loudly and you may not want to be within screaming distance of her when she chooses to let her opinion known.  You seem to be a good person and true to the faith.  I do hope you find the acceptance I feel you deserve.  I would like to make one more suggestion.  Please write these things out in a book of shadows or grimore.  I know they are lessons for your HPS but that does not mean you can not learn from them also.  You have been given a gift from your HPS the gift of knowing what not to do.  Write down her lessons so you don't have to learn them first hand later.  I believe you will have a wonderful coven of your own one day, for now, follow the train of obedience and finish your training so you can start your own beginning.  
Bright Blessings My Friend
Skyy

If nothing else, there is a HUGE lesson to be learned here in dealing with this situation Cromotos.  It's been teaching me so very much myself.  I always prided myself on being a strong person, but I came across the wrong way one too many a time.  This has been an experience of learning patience and how NOT to treat people.  At least we can walk away with that!  But I do feel that the situation will resolve....sooner rather than later.  We'll make it!!

darn right mom
i ment no disrespect to you. it's just that if there are two things that get my rage up it's one seeing a woman mistreated and two racism in any fashion i think that to set one apart from the rest of humanity just because they are same sex oriantated falls into the same category as racism.
i usualy enjoy stomping the  H E double hockey sticks out of anyone who would do eather although sometimes my rage gets the better of me and i go berserk but woe to the one who gets me that far gone. (fit)  so if i offended than i apoligize.