I just got this letter in my email from an old HS friend.  OF COURSE I had to reply as I was hotter than a hornet that she would try to send this to me of all people.  I wonder at her motives.  (She is Christian)  I gave her my reply, and will probably lose her as a friend,   , but I couldn't just let it ride like that.  This wasn't the first time that she has sent me offensive stuff.  (The last time was about immigration and Islam/terrorism-- I am married to a Muslim, and am just coming away from Islam myself, although I have no ill will toward it!)  Please add your rants as well.  (It makes me feel like I'm not alone in my anger   )


The email:

           Now this is sickening!!!  What IS our Problem????  Something needs to change because I really think the USA needs to adopt these LAWS too.
           
           L__

               
               
               Subject: The Following Immigration Laws Are Proposed
               
               THE FOLLOWING IMMIGRATION LAWS ARE PROPOSED...
               >
               > 1 There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
               > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
               > 2. All ballots will be in this nation's language.
               > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
               > 3.. All government business will be conducted in our language.
               > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
               > 4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
               > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
               > 5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office.
               > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
               > 6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. Any burden will be deported.
               > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ; * * * * * * * *
               > 7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
               > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
               > 8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
               > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
               > 9. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.
               > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
               > 10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted &, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you..
               > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
               >
               > Harsh, you say?.......
               >
               >
               > The above laws are current immigration laws of
               >
               > MEXICO
               >
               > SO..........what's our problem???????


My reply:

This is interesting.  I agree with some of the laws stated and agree that many of them really should be adopted by the US.  However, I think that many of them sound tyrannical and oppressive.  Considering that our country was founded by "foreigners", what would have happened if many of these laws had been put into place by the Native Americans before us?  Not too many people in this country have Native American blood anymore, and those who do are usually only a portion of that.  What qualifies a foreigner?  Someone who isn't yet a citizen?  Or anyone, citizen or not that was born outside of the US?  So, basically, if this law were in place, only extremely wealthy "foreigners" could come here to live...what ever happened to the American dream that our ancestors pursued.  Most of our Grandparents and Great-Grandparents came over on ships with little to no money in their pockets, but now that WE are all such wealthy people here, (and I say that sarcastically), we say that no one else is allowed to have that dream.  I certainly don't agree that all the "choicest" pieces of land should be reserved for Americans because the original Americans were given the least of the land when they were put on reservations.
I agree that people must learn the language before they come because it truly is inconvenient and annoying for them to be here without it, especially when they get frustrated at those of us who do NOT speak their language in our own country.  However, because of differences in learning and because I am an ESL teacher (English as a Second Language), I understand the need for added language help even for those who speak fluent English.  And from my own experience, it only takes about 4 months for some people to be conversational.
I agree that anyone who is illegal in this country should not be eligible for economic assistance through the government.  However, I don't see anything wrong in giving a hand through non-profit organizations.  What ever happened to good old-fashioned moral and ethical benevolence.  Did Jesus himself not say, "When I was hungry you fed me, and when I was thirsty you gave me drink?"  Do you think he meant that as a nationalistic thing?  I doubt it.
The only reason that a foreign flag cannot be waved in Mexico and bad things cannot be said about the president (and here I will say, personally, George Bush SUCKS!), is so that the government can keep its iron foot on the neck of the people.  Mexico isn't all that wonderful of a place to live.  They couldn't enact that law here, unless, of course, they tore down and burned the bill of rights.  (I freely exercise my freedom of speech, as is shown by this letter).
I also agree that anyone who comes into the country illegally and INTENDS to STAY HERE illegally without making an effort to establish residency, should, if found, be given a chance to become a resident or be sent back to their home country unless that country is in a state of unrest, wherein the immigrant should be granted a stay on the grounds of sanctuary.  We, as a "free" (*snort*) people should not allow such oppression as to send a fleeing refugee back to a wartorn nation.  (i.e. Palestine/Israel--either side)
C__, my husband and I came to America in 2005 with $300 in our pockets.  We are both working AND paying taxes, we own two cars, one of which is a Mercedes and live in Downtown Houston (not that we are rich, but we have built ourselves up nicely from absolutely nothing!).  K__ will be applying for citizenship this year, and hopefully it won't take that long considering that he is an Arab.  However, if laws like this were in place, my husband would never have had a chance to come to this country because he would have to have a bank account of well over a quarter of a million dollars (which in Egyptian pounds is actually a million and a half).  He speaks better English than most Americans, has a bachelor's degree in his field and pays his bills when they are due, which is more than I can say even about myself throughout my life.  He doesn't bomb buildings or threaten people.  His most grevious fault is his nicotine habit, which only hurts himself as he is extremely considerate of others in regard to his smoking unless he is in a room full of other smokers.  He doesn't drive drunk, take drugs or shoot people in their homes.  I'm sure that this chain email is being circulated in regard to the America/Mexico border/immigration issue, however, whatever laws are in effect for Mexican immigrants also effect immigrants from the middle east, Asia, Europe, South America and Australia.  We wouldn't have issues if we bordered a country like England, or Germany, for instance.  (they're white and most of them speak English.)  That's basically what the whole issue is about anyway.
We aren't as free a nation as many would like to think.

Lots of love,
Hope I haven't offended (I just grew some balls over the years )

Denise

Good for you.

I know they have adopted a citizin test here ( Australia)  that people becoming citizens must pass.  Although it is so people know the history of the country.

I don't agree with the majority of ideas in the said email .  As for that sort of thing happening here, well most of us would be classed as immigrants.  Although I was born here and my parents, some of my grandparents were not and their parents ancestors were sent here as convicts, one was sent here for marrying beneath her station.  So we would all be buggered.

But good for you for speaking your mind in response.  Every race of people has good and bad, it is wrong to condemn a whole race for the actions of a few.  And think how boring life would be if it were not for the melting pot of multicultural society.

Kath

A good response, and if this is truly a friend, then she will remain a friend.

I have seen this email myself; its very popular due to the anger over the illegal citizen problem that continues to worsen. Alot of people are greatly angered over the situation and emails like this one are being passed around all over the place. I'm wondering if maybe that's ALL it was, and it was NOT directed towards you and your spouse. Maybe she was surprised by your response, and how you took it, was not what she intended at all.

Alot of the emails of this type are not based on racism, but more along the lines of anger over the System/Government and the way they are running things. For example how it is EXTREMELY hard for some people to get government aid vs. how easy it is for illegal citizens to get tons of help (foodstamps, medical, etc) and seem to take advantage of our system, while tax payers have to pay for their assistance, and while U.S. citizens that are struggling and going without are found not elgible for or extremely limited from any help they may receive.

I'm saying anyone is wrong or right. I'm not judging, I'm just seeing and hearing what people have been talking about and going through.

Please, I do not tend to offend anyone, I just see another side of the story.

Just a thought.

My friend emailed me back and gave me an explanation much like the one you gave me.  I am not offended by this viewpoint.  I actually respected her response to my letter much more than the original email.  It helped me to understand her point.  All is well.  Thank you.

You are very welcome. I'm so glad it worked out for you guys. Good friends are rare and hard to come by, and I just hate to think of you losing a friend over a misunderstanding.

That's why Mexicans flood over the borders and come here. Because we don't have such stringent efforts to enforce illegal immigration. Some of those I do agree with, but also some are way too harsh for this country. It works in a place like Mexico, but many of those measures go against the spirit of America. It is true that many foreigners came to this nation and helped make it into what it is today, but also, when they came here, they did so in search of a better life for themselves and their families back home. Ship records indicate that after families came over and established themselves, their family members were still coming over up to at least 20 yrs after. Like my kin. They came over from Croatia and Canada around the turn of the century (20th). And my husband's kin, who came from Germany, Sweden, and Luxembourg. But when they came here, many people have stories about how their grandparents encouraged their children to speak English, because they were no longer in their Mother country, it seemed counter intuitive to speak their native language everywhere they went. But they continued to do so in their homes and it was in their homes that they would teach their children the mother tongue. My grandfather and mother spoke Croatian, but I did not learn very much of it at all.

Its nice to want to help others, but we need to take care of ourselves here on the homefront, before trying to save the world.

As early as the 1980's, south Florida became inundated with people from the Caribbean islands, especially Cuba. Carter granted amnesty to Cubans who braved the journey to the shores of Florida. Similarly to the Mexicans, the Cubans were fleeing what Fidel Castro had done to their home. And America the free was about 90 miles north. Its not like they never came here before then. Natives of caribbean and latin-american countries had been coming to florida at least since the 19th century if not earlier.  But there were consequences of that influx of immigrants about twenty yrs ago. What was the problem was that they refused to learn English, and instead of assimilating, drove the english speaking population out. Bilingual education in the late 80s, early 90s, in south florida consisted of not teaching spanish speaking students any English at all, but teaching English speaking students very minimal Spanish. I know this because I was there.

Kath, there is also a test for becoming a citizen of Canada. I would guess that at least 50% if not more of Americans would fail it.

Below are my thoughts on each of these:

1 There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
   I disagree with this. Bilingual education can be a good thing if taught right.
             
2. All ballots will be in this nation's language.
   This I do agree with. People who become citizens should be obligated to learn English.

3.. All government business will be conducted in our language.
    Preferably.
             
4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
   I agree with this. If a nonresident wants to be afforded all of the rights and responsibilities of a citizen, then they must go through the proper channels to become one.

5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office.
    Acc. to our constitution you must be born in the United States to hold the office of the President. But I am not sure about   just  any political office. I would imagine that is not necessary. McCain was born outside the US and so was Schwarzenegger.

6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. Any burden will be deported.
    We have a serious problem with this in our country. If by foreigners we mean non-citizens, then I do agree with this. Although willing to offer the chance for them to become citizens. But I find the idea of being on government aid, abhorrent. Its not something that any citizen should aspire to.

7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
   I don't see anything wrong with foreigners investing (at all) in our country.

8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
   I don't think foreigners coming here to buy land is a bad thing at all, and don't feel that they should be restricted in doing so. They may even be able to find people here who speak their language in which to make the necessary arrangements. But if they do plan on becoming a citizen in due time, they should learn english.

9. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.
   Protests, demonstrations, organizations are part and parcel to what our country is about. It should be encouraged, as long as they are organizing peaceably. This is also in our constitution. Flag waving is a sign of pride for one's mother nation. I don't think this should be discouraged. As for badmouthing the President and his policies, I still believe that this is a right afforded to people who are eligible to vote - ergo the citizen. If you didn't vote, then you can't complain. But also believe that even citizens should show some sign of respect to the President, even if he is a complete idiot. On the other hand, it is our right as citizens to complain about any administration, and most unfortunate when an administration or president begins to classify or even talk about groups that disagree with his actions as 'dissenters' or 'terrorists'. The day that happens we as a country are entering very dangerous territory.

10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted &, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you..
     Again offer the chance for illegals to become legal citizens, and if they refuse, then they should be deported.

IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR......

IF YOU GO INTO CHINA ILLEGALLY, YOUR CONSIDERED A SPY AND GET HARD PRISON TIME.....

IF YOU GO INTO GERMANY ILLEGALLY, YOU GET A HEFTY FINE, WORK IT OFF OR PAY IT OFF, THEN DEPORTED........

IF YOU GO INTO ENGLAND ILLEGALLY, YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY JAILED AND DEPORTED........

IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY....

BUT,  IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. .. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET:


      1.   A DRIVERS LICENSE
      2.   A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD
      3.   WELFARE
      4.   FOOD STAMPS = FREE FOOD
      5.   FREE HEALTH CARE
      6.   EVERYTHING TRANSLATED INTO YOUR LANGUAGE

I am working and going to school, which equal about 80 hours a week of work and I rarely see my kid (he's 12).  Because I work to keep food on the table and the utilities on, I do not qualify for food stamps or welfare or financial aide for school, yet I am barely making it.  I am living below poverty level.  I do not qualify for government health care either (because I make oh so much money, yeah right), my job does not offer it, and I have been unable to get private health care for less than $1800 per month (due to esophagus disease and past breast cancer) and that isn't even including coverage for my son.

Yes it does piss me off that I go to work and check people out with "free food" due to the $1200 of food stamps for their 6 kids that are not citizens, and they get and free medical & dental coverage, and lets not forget their rent paid, yet they do not even speak English.  Then they go to the government offices wearing their designer clothes, carrying their Gucci bag, and their nails all manicured with overlays, and their gold & diamonds, crying for more money in their own languge with an interpreter, and they get the increase!

This is no longer 1776, things have changed, I am sure that what we have now is not what our founding fathers had in mind.......

I am sorry if I offended anyone, that wasn't my goal.
.

Absolutely right. College students sometimes get chosen for something called 'selection procedures' something or other. It basically means that they want to know why it is you are asking for financial aid and they don't believe that you really need it so they commence with the bureaucratic anal rape tactics.

I couldn't qualify for financial aid until I had lived in the state of Missouri for at least one solid year. Even when I lived in Florida, I just barely qualified for financial aid, when foreigners didn't have to show any proof of id, yet somehow my father and I were put through the ringer, and we are both natives of Florida. I got nailed by that when I was living in Florida and then in Missouri I got it again, and my husband had no idea what it was, and I had to explain it to him.

I think what other countries do to foreigners is sometimes too harsh, but I think that what they do for foreigners in this country causes us natives to suffer indefinitely.

I've read reports about Chinese mothers-to-be who sneak aboard freighters bound who give birth in Canada so that they can stay. At least we know the whole "anchor-baby" phenomenon doesn't just happen here in the States. Democratic and Liberal politicians are always talking about how great some of these other countries are (mainly the ones from which the highest amounts of immigrants leave to come to our country). If those countries are so awesome, why are those people coming here?

Something I forgot to share with all of you before, was something similar to what seamonster posted. I have this friend who is very pro-government. She lives on welfare, uses foodstamps to eat, has section8 housing... government fan all the way. And one day on facebook I start complaining about what we've been hearing in the news about Obama's plan for healthcare. This is America. I figure I still have the right to free speech - well at least that's what I thought. Maybe I was wrong. The next thing I know this friend of mine goes ballistic, and attempts to subdue me with fearmongering. She accuses me of being a heartless cold and uncaring person who doesn't ever want to help anyone. In addition to accusing me of all this, also calls me incompassionate and accuses me of not wanting her daughter to have healthcare (when I never said anything about her daughter at all).

Well I fire back. I can't believe that this person I have called a friend for the last 5 yrs, who I have comforted in turmoil, who I have stood by and stood up for when the chips were down, who I mourned for when she married an incredible jerk who was only using her, and who i was happy for when she finally got him out of her life... now had the audacity to tell me that because I disagree with her and with the current administration that I am somehow uncaring and ill-sympathetic. I always knew she wanted friends who were 'yes-men', but this really pushed me over the edge.

After about a month she acts like nothing's wrong. That is until one of us starts to talk politics again. And then it will be hellfire and brimstone. So today she invites me over for fondue sometime in the next few weeks and I'm just talking aloud right now, wondering what the next step will be.

Tavthe, if you want to keep this person as a friend, next time politics comes up in conversation, I would just quietly say something like "lets just agree to disagree" and let it go.  Friends are not suppossed to stress you out.
.

She sounds like a really troubled person, Tavthe!  Sometimes it is best for us to keep our distance from such people.  I'm not saying that you should "dump" her as a friend, but there is only so much "help" you can give a friend.  If friends begin to dictate what you are allowed to believe, then a line needs to be drawn.  (Maybe this is why I'm almost completely friendless...lol!)  

It is still a (comparitively) free country, and yes, you are allowed to say what you wish.  You even have a right to voice your opinions about the gvt. in front of people who don't see it the way you do, and you do have the right to tell a person, "Your point is valid, but I disagree."  Because there really is no right answer in anything in this life, every person will have a different idea of the way "it is" because of the circumstances in which they live.  You know what you know from your own experiences.  You can't change those.

Even though I think most of us share the same basic goals....staying healthy, being able to grow work and enjoy our families and friends, we all have different views on how to accomplish that. Your friend seems very insecure and maybe she feels that she needs you to share her opinions to make them valid.
Politics would definitely be a subject I would avoid with her. Fondue sounds good tho..

All the points are valid and I definitely agree with them. As much as  I love fondue, I can't see myself selling out to her for the sake of fondue - even if it is really good fondue. I've been distancing myself more and more from her.

Anything new happening on the friendship front? It always seems sad to see things fall apart over something as ephemeral as political opinions.