It is my hope that this brings some interesting debate here in the castle....

Is there any kind of sin, punishment and redemption in your
religion or beliefs?

* Do you believe people can sin or violate the sacred? What would
you call a sin or violation of the sacred?

* Do you believe in punishment by your God/s, Goddess/es,
spirits, entities or powers for wrong doings?

* How are those punishments enacted in your opinion? Do they
affect your present life or after life?

* Can the wrongdoer be redeemed? If, when does the punishment
end?

* Is there any way to avoid punishment in the first place?
Any thoughts?

My belief is that we all sin.  (drink too much, eat too much, lie, cheat, steal, mistreat someone, whatever it may be)  

We should seek forgiveness for our sin.  If we ask, I believe God is faithful and just to forgive us our sin.  God doesn't punish us, although we may have to live with certain consequences of our sin.  I do believe the worst punishment would be separation from God.  I cannot lose my relationship with Him, but I can break my fellowship with Him.  Therefore, I commune with Him daily.

This subject is one that I just did a complete turn-around in my belief system within the past 10 years and I have to admit I don't have hard answers...but
I don't believe in sin, punishment, or redemption.
From my experience in life, I have viewed that what people send out, (love, happiness, hate, fear,etc), they have always gotten it sent back to them.  
And I have talked to people who were just plain evil, or had bad energy (I don't know), and I really couldn't find that they had any good in them at all.  But maybe these people exist so that good people can exist.  So you can't change them, just feel sorry for these people for their miserable lives.  
I do believe that we will continue existing after our bodies die.  I think there is enough evidence to support this.  Maybe we'll exist in another form as angels, spirits, whatever, or maybe we'll just exist as another form of energy.  I don't think our energy or spirit is going to change just because our body dies.
I guess I could go on and on, so I'll stop now.

Is there any kind of sin, punishment and redemption in your
religion or beliefs?
         Most people define �sin� as an act of wrongdoing which we much pay for in the afterlife; I, personally, see this transgression as negative energy which we create and throw into this world. However, through life�s experiences, I am a FIRM believer in Karma and believe that our punishment, or redemption, will return to us.

* Do you believe people can sin or violate the sacred? What would
you call a sin or violation of the sacred?
         No, I do not. We each have our own beliefs, so when we sin what we see as sacred, we actually sin against ourselves.

* Do you believe in punishment by your God/s, Goddess/es,
spirits, entities or powers for wrong doings?
         As I said, I�m a firm believer in karma, a law which these superior powers above us have written. Our Karma is our own punishment.

* How are those punishments enacted in your opinion? Do they
affect your present life or after life?
         They are carried out through our daily lives, whether it be to fail in receiving a raise or the loss of a material object. As they say, �Life has a funny way of coming back and biting you in the butt.�

* Can the wrongdoer be redeemed? If, when does the punishment
end?
         The punishment is over when the negativity that has come from the act is neutralized. Can they be redeemed? That I�m not so sure on, but if you put out more positive energy than negative, I�m sure it will help counter the punishment.

* Is there any way to avoid punishment in the first place?
Any thoughts?
         No. You created the negativity in the first place. How can you avoid your own creation?

From my own experience, I know that whatever "sin" we commit in our lives comes back to us.  Religious texts tell us that however we judge others, we will be judged in the same manner.  Whenever I have judged people severely for something, I have ended up doing the very same thing that I judged in others and therefore have learned what it was like to be in "their shoes".  That is the ultimate punishment--having to "be" or "do" whatever it is we have caused for or against others.  I don't know even that it is "punishment" so much as it is just a return on our lives.  We get the same thing when we do or think good things.  Good things come back to us.
I believe people can sin, but we have to be careful what we define as "sin".  I don't believe that we should be quick to call something a sin as some of the organized faiths do...(recently, I had a student in class tell me that if I whistle, I am calling "shaitan" or Satan, which is a common belief among this religion! ).  Personally, I define sin as anything that goes against the greater good of all.  If I am going to do something selfishly without considering others who might be affected by my actions, it is a sin.  If I go against my better judgement on something that regards even myself, it is a sin.  Each person's sin is different.  Whatever goes against the conscience of a person, which might be different for each of us, would be a sin.  Personally, I think sin is anything that counteracts actions of love and peace.  I know that sounds very "flower child" but anytime we negatively affect others we affect their rights.  We wouldn't want others to do that to us, so it stands to reason that we shouldn't do it to others.  However, we can't go about freaking out over everything we do.  If we live simply and rightly, we end up with good Karma in the end.

I believe that you get back what you send out, so if you send out negitivity then thats what your going to get back three fold,  and it works the same for good.
I also think that if you intend to send out negitivity you have to do the same thing more than just once.
We all have bad days and snap at people, we dont mean to send them bad things when we're like that.
So you deserve whatever you get because by repeating the negitivity, your responsable for it.

I understand the universe as mental, as the concept of the ever-expanding universe and the realm of the mind are one in the same. as such, life is a series of mental states, ever-changing, and whatever mental attitude we hold in the now will direct our attention to corresponding notions in our mind, reflective in whatever we behold in our reality. this is why something can be very appealing one day, and not so spectacular the next.

because my universe is an eternal mental state, and everything i behold in my material reality a reflection of that mental state, i strive for the happy, enjoyable thought from one moment to the next, swinging from happy thought vine to happy thought vine in my jungle of mental attitudes. to use this attitude to offer relief and joy to others in my reality is to offer relief and joy to my own mind; to use this attitude to take advantage of others in my reality is to take advantage of my own mind. i can tell what use of my mental attitude adds relief to my reality, and what use of my mental attitude offers dis-ease, stress, and the like. as a human being, we know what feels good and what feels bad, we know when we can be proud of our actions or if something we did isn't sitting quite right within ourselves. when my mental attitudes add dis-ease instead of offering relief, that is my sin.

Within itself, the sin encompasses all the punishment due for, and all the justice needed for redemption of, the sin. Within the scope of the sin, i can balance the unbalanced mental attitude, or offer light to the chaos, to put the matter at ease. this is the grace of forgiveness.

It all comes from within.

Of course, I miss many of my "happy vines" as i swing through my days. i chalk that up to the imperfection of the human state and go easy on myself, and my mistakes, as learning to live life properly is, like life itself, an ever-going process. from this view of the world as mental, i can recognize the eternal life i hold, no birth, no death. There's no need for jealousy when all i can behold is all of my creation, all within my scope of perception and awareness - how brilliantly complext the mind (universe) is and how beautiful of a world i've created! when i take the time to notice all the things i CAN notice, i get pretty proud of my abilities!

and if stiving for the happiest thought moment to moment isn't the "right" way to live, I can at the very least rest assured i'll die with a happy thought on my mind   .
That's enough motivation to make each and every moment count, to sit right and easy with the rest of the world, to sit right and easy within my mind. When I have my "on" days, it's blissful.

Sin, punishment and redemption (all types of judgements) are all based on the ego.  What is right or wrong based on my view of my world from my personal subjective vantage point.  Me (and the people who happen to agree with me) or Them (the people whose views differ).  It's all based on the premise of seperation, that we are all seperate entities.  I've learned enough about popularly accepted religions to know that 1) they don't encourage you to think for yourself (they'll tell you what you should believe, how you should act, etc) and 2) all those rules tend to make most people extremely judgemental about everyone else, decreasing the amount of love in the world instead in increasing it like they claim.

Personally, I get awfully bored with the whole "Let's make a bunch of rules so I can feel the universe is more predictable and therefore less scary" approach.  I can think of a million different scenarios where what I may think is wrong could be justifiable.  What if my burglar were trying to get money to get his dying mother medical treatment? (Read my other post). We are all spiritual beings experiencing a physical reality for awhile, but still connected on a subconscious/spiritual level.  It's that spiritual connection that has prevented us from destroying ourselves.  And in that physical context we are all capable of hurting someone else just by trying to get through the day.  I believe we all do the best we can with what we've got at the moment.  Getting down on people for their behavior only serves to seperate us further; what if desperate people felt trusting enough to ask for help rather than resorting to desperate measures?  

Punishment and redemption are just ways to frighten people into doing what you want them to do.  Control based on fear.  If you do what I don't want you to, you will either be punished, brought down and then let back into the fold (redeemed), or you won't be redeemed which equals isolation, not being let back into the fold.  It's a primal fear, being seperated from the group.  Our prehistoric ancestors knew that isolation was a death sentence. It is still a deep-seated fear today, and often used to manipulate people for good or bad.

All I know is that my Goddess does not punish for wrongdoings.  I think that deities are rather detached from the day to day dramas that unfold according to my ego's view of my place in the world.  Perhaps on a more spiritual level they have dealings with our choices of behavior, but it's on a much larger scale than our day to day transgressions.  I try to make the choices in my daily life that would denote a gentle, loving spirit, and yet I'm going through some intense trials-by-fire.  Am I really a creep with a warped sense of right and wrong?  Or was I an absolute demoness in a former life that I am now paying for?  I sure hope it doesn't work that way.  I don't want to be good in this life out of fear that I may have to pay for my deeds in a future life.  I choose to live decently, sometimes even alittle nobly, from love, not from fear.

— Acasia wrote

All I know is that my Goddess does not punish for wrongdoings. �I think that deities are rather detached from the day to day dramas that unfold according to my ego's view of my place in the world. �Perhaps on a more spiritual level they have dealings with our choices of behavior, but it's on a much larger scale than our day to day transgressions. �I try to make the choices in my daily life that would denote a gentle, loving spirit, and yet I'm going through some intense trials-by-fire. �Am I really a creep with a warped sense of right and wrong? �Or was I an absolute demoness in a former life that I am now paying for? �I sure hope it doesn't work that way. �I don't want to be good in this life out of fear that I may have to pay for my deeds in a future life. �I choose to live decently, sometimes even alittle nobly, from love, not from fear.

Well said  aa)

Sundown

I believe in karma. I believe that evil exists, but I don't believe in the Christian concept of sin. When you do evil acts, it will come back to you, one way or another, in this life, or another. I don't believe it's a punishment so much as a form of cosmic balance, or justice.

Hmm, interesting post.  You know, at the moment Im not even quite sure just how I would *label* my beliefs.  I still observe the cycles of the moon and the wheel of the year, I still work with various faces of the God and Goddess, though I see them as different aspects of spirit, not as divine beings as such.

Is there any kind of sin, punishment and redemption in your
religion or beliefs?

Hmm, I don't really use the term sin.  I see that as a christian term, which I have no problem with by the way, it just doesn't sit with me.  I'm not entirley sure how I would put it into words.  The intention behind the actions is important to me.  Is somone does "the wrong thing" are they punished?  I am a believer in karma, and I also believe we are all here to learn, both positive and negative lessons.  The optimist in me likes to think we continue to come back until we have learnt all, and have become "focused on positive energy."  I don't think there is an entity sitting up there awaiting my arrival to punish me or anyone else for wrong doings however.


* Do you believe people can sin or violate the sacred? What would
you call a sin or violation of the sacred?

Again, dont like the term sin.  Do I think people can do the wrong thing, sure *but* I also like to focus on what they do next.  Did they mean what they did, have they learnt from their actions and so on.  "Violate the sacred" I guess I would have to define what I see as sacred.  Which to me is just about everything.  Mother Earth and all living beings on it, we are all of spirit.  So yes, I do believe people often violate the sacred.  In fact I think  most of us are guilty of it each day by way of the way we treat Mother Earth.

* Do you believe in punishment by your God/s, Goddess/es,
spirits, entities or powers for wrong doings?

No, I don't.  I do believe that other lessons will be played out in this life or the next that will make that person understand their wrong doings.

* How are those punishments enacted in your opinion? Do they
affect your present life or after life?

See above.

* Is there any way to avoid punishment in the first place?

By virtue of my thoughts, the punishment to me is another lesson. I don't think we would learn if we all  always did the "right thing".  Sadly the negative things in life are just a part of life and our experiences.  Do I wish I could stop some of the horrific things that happen day to day, of course...but can I?  Not really.  I think the most any of us can hope to do is live each day of our lives to the best of our ability and learn along the way.

Wow, hows that for some rambling   Thanks Lady E, wonderful post to get some thoughts down.  So much of what I beieve is undergoing a bit of an overhaul at the moment, so it was nice to try and get some of it into words.

A